Free Enterprise Socialism

This entry was posted on 7/22/2008 10:12 AM and is filed under Politics,Foreign Policy.

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• 8/2/2008 12:38 PM Dano wrote:
  The "American Dream," as originally conceived by James Truslow Adams in 1932, did incorporate the idea of equal opportunity. More recently, however, many scholars have adopted a more critical view that recognizes the inequality of opportunity built into American culture (see,e.g."Crime and the American Dream," by Steven Messner and Richard Rosenfeld, 1994). A meritocracy is great, as long as there is no systemic greed, corruption, or cultural impediment to accessing legitimate means of success. That's not where we live, unfortunately, here in the U.S.
  
  So I guess I'm suggesting the premise is wrong. It's not that we have competing definitions for "free enterprise system" and "socialism," it's that we do not subscribe to the tenants of capitalism (and capitalism is different from a free enterprise/market--in fact, contrasting free market systems with socialism is a bit like apples and oranges). The opening quotation, which is certainly the foundation of your argument, is fundamentally flawed in that it marries democracy and free enterprise, and both of them with social justice and equality. Where and when did democracy require free enterprise economic structure? Why would free enterprise require equality or social justice?
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  1. 8/2/2008 3:24 PM Ken Pirok wrote:
     I understand your point, but I think you're missing mine.
     
     You can take out the word "democracy," or maybe you can replace it with "capitalism" if you want. You can also take out "communism" to avoid equating it with socialism, even though those things often go together too...whatever...It doesn't matter.
     
     The opening quote is simply made up to appear analogous to the Castro quote. We use the exact same words to describe a very different system. The point is that we believe that our system is derived from social justice and equality. We have purposefully designed it that way. Even if free enterprise does not necessarily require equality or social justice, we have chosen to marry them anyway.
     
     Apparently, Castro believes that Cuba's socialist system is derived from the exact same thing-social justice and equality. Maybe you do too.
     
     And, that's where we differ. That's why his quote is ironic. Our system offers true opportunity for everyone and a very high quality of life for most.
     
     Our system, while very obviously not perfect, exhibits much less corruption and greed than does their system. I'm just not sure how someone can argue against that.
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     1. 8/3/2008 12:46 AM Dano wrote:
        You don't know how anyone can argue that the Cuban system may NOT be more corrupt than ours?
        
        While I'm not trying to argue the point with my first post,I do have to ask now: Is it the downtrodden, oppressed Cuban public that is corrupt and greedy, or just the top-level dictator and his cronies?
        
        By and large, any capitalist (or want-to-be capitalist) society is bound to be more corrupt, over all, than a socialist one. The point here is that it isn't the "socialism" that is corrupt or begets corruption, it's (certainly in the case of Cuba) criminal leadership. Lord Acton said, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Corruption is not a given based upon socialism, it is a feature of socialist societies led by despots. It also happens to be a feature of any other kind of society that worships the acquisition of wealth.
        
        Greed, on the other hand, is universal and always distasteful(which I suspect is why it enjoys the label, "sin").
        
        While it is inherently leaned toward it, capitalism certainly doesn't have the greed market cornered, and is hardly less corrupt than socialism--at least in their purest forms.
        
        Having played the devil's advocate, I want to make it clear that I would much rather live in the U.S., with all our flaws, than in Cuba, with its lack of freedom. But corruption and greed, even among average citizens, go with the territory, here. Criminal deviance is the coping strategy that is employed when legitimate means are not EQUALLY available to everyone in their search for CULTURALLY-DEFINED goals, like those intrinsic to the American Dream.
        
        It's an interesting subject, and I certainly appreciate the thought you put into the original post and your response to my comments. If I sound a little too eager to argue the point, it's because these issues are important in my field (research criminology), and I find myself engaged in similar discussions on a regular basis.
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  2. 8/2/2008 3:31 PM Ken Pirok wrote:
     One more thing...Their system is becoming like our system for all of these very reasons.
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• 8/2/2008 9:51 PM Ken Pirok wrote:
  Socialism, according to Raul Castro, is becoming capitalism!
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• 8/4/2008 10:04 AM Ken Pirok wrote:
  I agree that neither system is absolutely perfect and that our capitalist system still exhibits greed and corruption. But, it's the best alternative available.
  
  You won't convince me that socialist countries and Cuba, specifically, don't beat us in the corruption business.
  
  In the United States, you don't have to ask anyone permission to apply for a job or start a business (or to have a phone or travel where you need to go). You don't have to bribe anyone to get hired or to buy products, set up a store, or get customers.
  
  Greed and crime are largely a function of lack of economic opportunity. This is true in any economic or political system.
  
  The less economic opportunity available, the more that greed and corruption are inevitable.
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  1. 8/8/2008 10:18 AM Dano wrote:
     Okay, I won't try to convince you. But I will say that Cuba's Government is not one of and/or by the people, as ours is. The only major corruption in Cuba is that of the brothers, Castro, and their cronies (which include the people with whom THEY do business). Corruption in the U.S. is widespread and by the people (and, by design, the people's government).
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