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Penn and Teller's BS about Paper Recycling

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This entry was posted on 12/16/2006 6:17 PM and is filed under Environment, Life, Correction.

Penn and Teller have a series on Showtime called "Bullshit." It is actually quite entertaining, and the hosts make some pretty astute observations sometimes. (As long as you can keep from surrendering your critical thinking skills, I do recommend that you check it out.) But, the name of the show is definitely an appropriate description of their opinions about recycling, BULLSHIT!

Penn and Teller conclude that recycling is a waste of time and money. One reason is that they believe "it increases energy use in transport, sorting, storing, and cleaning." As an example, they state that, "It takes more energy to recycle a plastic bottle than to make a new one."

I don’t know whether it really takes more energy to recycle plastics than to manufacture them from scratch. But, it is definitely fiction that it takes more energy to recycle paper than to produce it from wood (and the same goes for aluminum.) Penn and Teller argue that we waste a great deal of energy transporting recycled paper around. Well, actually it takes just as much or more energy to transport wood from the remote areas where it is logged to paper mills, than it takes to collect paper and transport it to be recycled (especially if it’s collected along with trash, as it should be.) And, it costs real money and scarce landfill space to transport paper that is thrown away with the garbage.

It also takes extreme amounts of energy for mills to make pulp by separating cellulose fibers from the wood during the manufacturing process. Since recycled paper has already been processed, it actually takes much less energy to get it back to a reusable form.

Penn and Teller also declare that, "Today, most paper is made from trees grown specifically for the production of paper. You follow that? Paper comes from trees, so we grow trees to make paper, like we grow potatoes to make yummy french fries," and that, "We have three times more trees today than we did in 1920."

These statements may be completely factual. But they miss the point, and they mislead. The rest of the story is that in some places tree farms used for paper production are still replacing natural forests. Let’s be clear, a pine plantation is not a forest. It ceases to be an ecosystem or a place that supports biodiversity; most other forest plants and animals just can’t live in pine plantations. They also lose their aesthetic beauty; they just don’t look the same.

So, just because there are more trees, this does not mean there are necessarily more forests. Experts and environmentalists do agree that the use of pine plantations for paper production is a good idea. They can actually provide much more paper per acre than a forest does anyway. But, to be responsible, we should continue to recycle and avoid replacing forests with tree farms. It won’t hurt to continue to communicate using websites, email, and blogs either.

 

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    • 12/21/2006 4:28 PM redstatewannabe wrote:
      Here is an easy way to tell if it costs more money to recycle paper than to make new - will anyone pay you for scrap paper? Paper companies pay for trees, make paper, and still make a profit.

      If I recall correctly, the city of Champaign had to force garbage collectors to provide the curbside recycling service. Doesn't sound like the waste haulers are making a mint selling paper and plastic to recyclers (in spite of getting cans which do have some value).
      Reply to this
      1. 12/21/2006 5:32 PM Ken Pirok wrote:
        You have got to be kidding me!

        Recyclers DO make profits selling raw materials back to manufacturers, even though they don't pay the original consumer for the materials.

        The paper industry uses as much recycled paper as it can get, and they prefer it to paying for trees, because it is more economical for them.

        These facts are so well-documented that I'm not even going to take the time to provide links.
        Reply to this
    • 12/26/2006 2:09 PM redstatewannabe wrote:
      "The paper industry uses as much recycled paper as it can get, and they prefer it to paying for trees, because it is more economical for them."

      Sure it is economical for the ultimate users, since the collection of the paper is being subsidized.

      Ask the waste haulers how much they would lower their rates the next time the issue comes up in the city.
      Reply to this
      1. 12/26/2006 3:51 PM Ken Pirok wrote:
        Thank you for your entertaining comments. I am under the assumption that you can't possibly be serious.

        The incremental cost of collecting paper with trash is almost literally zero. If the paper weren't recycled, it would still be trash. They would still have to collect it. Do you understand that?

        Also, if the collection of paper were being subsidized, which it is not in my opinion, who would care? Everyone uses paper. It seems that the "subsidy" would actually benefit everyone. It would be an "investment."
        Reply to this
        1. 12/27/2006 12:35 PM redstatewannabe wrote:
          the incremental cost is almost zero? you are the one who can't be serious. First, you have to run a second special collection truck the entire garbage route - cost of truck, gas, 2 people, and wear on road. Second, once collected, all this paper,plastic, cardboard and metal must be separated, and sorted between usable and unusable by someone or something. Again, ask the garbage haulers how much they would/could decrease their rates if they were not required to offer curbside recycling.

          Even if you want to only count the stuff brought to the city collection site, look in the bin. People have all their newspapers in there - in plastic bags.

          As to the "subsidy" vs. "investment" angle, I do understand that argument - I use the same one for fixing roads. But, if this "investment" which benefits everyone costs more than doing nothing, the only people really winning are the recycling companies.

          I have heard some argue that curb side recycling is important, even if it is a net loser, because it gets people and communities in the habit of segregating their garbage - and the program might be a net winner someday. But to argue that there is no incremental cost to collecting recyclable materials and separating it into usable stuff shows just a lack of understanding.
          Reply to this
    • 12/27/2006 1:44 PM Ken Pirok wrote:
      I anticipated that you would make that exact argument. First of all, my original article clearly states that, whenever possible, it is best to collect garbage and recycling with the same truck. Believe it or not, this can be accomplished.

      The real crime is having so many hauling companies that three or four or more trucks serve the same geographic area, tear up the same roads, etc. Champaign is WAY behind the times in this regard.

      Secondly, recycling has significantly reduced the amount of trash collected. Personally, I recycle much more than I throw away in the trash. So, even if you use different trucks for recycling versus trash, you still significantly reduce the number of trucks you need to haul the trash. You just don't need twice as many trucks. You may not need any more trucks in total at all.

      I'll grant the cost of sorting, but that's a very small cost in the overall sceme of things, and it is at least partially made up by the fact that the hauler has some recycled items to sell.

      When Champaign mandated recycling, how much did our prices go up? I don't remember any big jump at all.
      Reply to this
    • 12/28/2006 7:02 PM redstatewannabe wrote:
      I would think a truck that could take garbage and recycling stuff would be pretty pricey.

      I also think you might be surprised by the cost of sorting, but I don't have any figures either. Also note that much of what gets collected as recycling is actually garbage anyway, so it has to get handled twice.

      Side note:
      I agree with you that sending 3 or 4 trucks down the same street seems pretty wasteful (and noisy), but I can't think of a better system that accomplishes the goals the current system does (competition on price and variation of service). I don't like city-run collection services.
      End side note:

      I don't want to come across as anti-recycling. I just tend to think that if it was such a great thing for the end users that they would pay for the material, like they do with aluminum. Paper is such a cheap product to begin with that I just don't know how all the man-hours involved in collecting and sorting it can be recovered.
      Reply to this
    • 12/29/2006 1:48 AM Ken Pirok wrote:
      One last thought about city services and competition...just because a municipality spearheads a service, does not necessarily mean that the city provides the service internally or that there is no longer competition and free enterprise.

      To the contrary, the city would almost certainly contract this out. The contracts would be acquired through bidding processes. Typically, a city would divide itself into a bunch of zones and take bids. There would still be competition. There could still be multiple service providers. It's just that in a given area, you would no longer have lots of trucks making noise (at 2am,) tearing up city streets, polluting the air, etc.

      Maybe, probably costs would go down for consumers, while maybe, probably profits would go up for the haulers due to the efficiency.
      Reply to this
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